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I'm asking readers what they think...
We have this area on the site where we post information about (who we believe to be) crooked sellers that use online auctions to sell gun related stuff, and guns. Right now there is one bullseye on there for an outfit called midwest-neatstuff. The seller responds to questions about auction items with insults such as "f!!k yourself" and so forth. The seller has pretty bad feedback, but ironically demonstrates GB's very faulty feedback system that still awards an A+ to obviously bad sellers. You have to keep in mind that half the people who get screwed don't leave negative feedback because they don't want the negative feedback retaliation by the bad seller. So when you see a negative you almost have to consider another one out there that didn't get reported. But enough about GB's faulty feedback system… Today I got an email from midwest-neatstuff - a testimate to the effectivness of the bad sellers page here on FF.
Our Gun Auction Sellers page…
http://www.firearmsfirst.com/?page_id=18
My opinion might be biased though, as someone I highly respect had a very bad experience with midwest-neatstuff. Form your own opinion without regards to what I have said and post it here.
Should we remove the warning about midwest-neatstuff or leave it?
Here's what midwest-neatstuff wrote today:
From: Joseph W. Lane <josephw1944@yahoo.com>
Website: Superfastcash.com
Message: You say you have confirmed our dishonesty ???
We have a 99.7 % positve rating on ebay. In the past year you will see that we have had 5 negatives out of the last 4500 feedbacks in the past year or approx. 1 per 900 transactions. The last one we got was Jan 9th because a woman bought an item and wanted to return it because she found a cheaper one. The ones before that were 2 from one very negative person who maintains private feedback because he has received 4 negatives for the last four items he purchased and only has 13 feedbacks in the past year. What if we got 4 negatives for every 13 transactions ???? The other 2 are for the same similar things. Did your investigation reveal this ???
Now for Gunbroker.com we have a 97 % rating which is also a very good rating. If you would have really gone back and investigated and looked at what these negatives were for you would see that they are not for delivering a correct or on time product but usually because the customer was unrealistic. For example the last neg. we received was on 3 /21/ 05 having to deal with a gun that they claimed was unsafe. The gun was perfectly safe but we offered to have the gun looked at and any repairs needed at our expense( including all shipping costs )and work would be done by an experienced highly qualified gunsmith. What the real problem was he over spent and needed his money for things like his light bill or car payment or whatever as the gun was totally as described.
There are bad sellers out there for sure but you should not put us into that catagory until you really check out some of the negative comments and what is really behind them. I would be more then happy to call you and discuss any and all feedbacks we have and let you decide after talking with us and getting full and complete input concerning both sides of this issue as to if we deserve some sort of title that indicates we are "Dirtbags" and to be avoided.
Joseph W. Lane (Owner)
Here's what I said back...
Mr. Joseph W. Lane,
Feedback does have its faults, as any seasoned online auction user can confess. The information comes from a very well known woman antiques firearms collector. It was then verified to the best of our ability.
Who is the individual within your organization that identifies himself as "MW"? Assuming those are the individual's initials, what is the person's name? Are you aware of the type of correspondences that this MW conducts with both potential and existing customers of your business?
Also I noticed in the responses to negative feedback for 'midwest-neatstuff' on GB there were a lot of personal attacks and insults, such as calling the buyer 'jerk' or 'idiot'. Is it a member of your staff that lacks any level of professionalism and maturity and who is writing these feedback responses and emails with childish name-calling and profanity?
If you operate an honest business perhaps you should be aware that the actions of MW or whoever is writing these things compromise your businesses reputation.
A success ratio of feedback for GB is considered roughly 1 negative per 100 transactions with a few exceptions.
Thank you for writing to us and good luck with any potential personnel issues you may have within your organization.
Trent
He does have an excess of negative feedback on gunbroker.com. I personally would never buy from a seller with that many negatives. Like you said, I too might except 2 or maybe as high as 3 negatives per 100 depending on circumstances. A seller's rebuttal to negative feedback is important when considering leniency. I look for a seller response that is both logical, polite, and sounds reasonable enough to be true. It looks like midwest-neatstuff posts some pretty childish rebuttals to negative feedback. That says a lot about the seller's character. If the character of the seller is compromised like that, then why should I be expected to trust that individual? After all, say there is a problem, would I wish to open myself to the level of abuse midwest-neatstuff lashes out at customers with? Certainly not. I agree with the advice to avoid him.
I asked that guy some questions about an auction once and I asked about some of the negatives he had in his feedback. His response contained some pretty peculiar advice. He suggested that while in flight, I attempt to engage in sexual intercourse with a small friend ring shaped cake while it too is in motion; in short, something about f-ing a doughnut. He also suggested that I had no business buying firearms due to the fact that I am a woman. So I pretty much vote to leave the sexist pig listed as a bad seller. He is a horrible, horrible guy. The things he said to me where vulgar and childish to the point that I think he may have a serious anti-social mental disorder. What a creep! I can't believe the Federal Government would trust a guy like that with a dealer's license.
Oh yeah, Gunbroker's letter grades are too forgiving. It's like level high school percentage based letter grades, which is fine for your 14-year-old's history exam, but useless for checking a seller. My suggested grading system:
0 negatives is the only way to have an A+
1 negative per 100 A
2 negatives per 100 B
3 negatives per 100 C
4 negatives per 100 D
Hi Trent,
I have no idea who that might be or when but I sure would like to give my side of any situation.
MW stands for Midwest Exchange.
I have tended not to interfer with him as he is a very dedicated and hard working individual who has a hard time dealing with people who ask for or go out of realistic bounds. He answers several hundred emails per day and has had no problem making refunds or going out of his way to be nice and accomodating under 99 % of everyday circumstances. However he does get aggitated with people who use no common sense or common logic. I'm going to sit down with him today and discuss his ( at times ) harse comments.
I have to agree with you to a point but wonder how this indicate we are dishonest ? ? That is confusing and UNTRUTHFUL to say midwest-neatstuff is dishonest and to avoid us and not deal with us. Why not say we have been harse in returning negative feedbacks ( this will stop ) but to claim were DISHONEST ! That is a total untruth !
Not sure if you have ever sold on ebay and gunbroker but there are a lot of buyers on gunbroker ( much more then ebay ) that simply never follow through with an auction and never pay after an auction... never return requests as to their intentions etc. ... Not sure why but it is a fact. Probably has more to do with the lady of the house putting a nix on their purchase. But I really don't know the answer to that.
I appeciate you getting back to me but I'm still left with a feeling of why you describe us as "DISHONEST" when that is totally false. I assume someone gave you their viewpoint and since you read some our guy's harse comments you equated this with being dishonest ? Plese fill me in on how you arrived at telling the world we are dishonest and to be avoided. How would you describe all the very positive comments ? As people who just don't know any better ... and aware of our so called dishonesty ?
You have a good day Trent,
Best Regards, Joseph
It looks as though he is trying to say that the fault lies with his employee. But the real question is whether or not honesty has anything to do with professionalism. We often hear the words honesty and integrity used together.
Is this business dishonest? Judging by feedback there seems to be an above average number of buyer complaints. This seller is trying to substantiate credibility by leveraging those positive feedback responses as evidence. However, it would be unreasonable to assume that any seller is going to have a majority of negative feedback responses and still be able to sell anything to anyone! Wouldn't it be cleverer for a dishonest seller to complete several inexpensive honest transactions then nail a buyer on the occasional expensive item? I'm not suggesting that this is the case with mw. But the logic is no less sound than his assertion that his positive feedback establishes him as an honest seller without regards to the unusually high number of negative feedback complaints.
What makes mw look bad is the accumulative evidence that there was a failed transaction between your friend and mw, the inappropriate correspondences with auction users, especially women, the high number of feedback as well as the responses mw posts below buyer complaints.
If I were this seller I would fire the mental case employee, and start fresh with a new user id in an honest attempt to please as many customers as possible within reason. There are too many sellers out there with very few negatives to risk doing business with someone that has a wacky employee and bad feedback.
He doesn't seem honest to me
in an auction one time from him one time, but think he is kind of rude to deal with. I bet Im not the only one. I would rather buy from sellers with the right attitude. Neatstuff doesn't have the right attitude.
I have personally known Joseph Lane, whose business sells as midwest-neatstuff on Gunbroker.com, for many years and have had purchased several firearms from his business. I have read the various posts regarding his business and have reviewed all of the Gunbroker feedback. I know Mr. Lane well enough to state without hesitation that Mr. Lane is an honest and reputable seller in his store and on Gunbroker and Ebay. He has been in business for over 15 years and has a substantial retail store in addition to his online business. He buys and sells significant numbers of firearms. Mr. Lane and his employees are very knowledgeable about firearms, and I believe his listings will accurately describe the condition of the firearms being sold. I have found that my emails and phone calls are promptly and courteously handled. While his feedback is not 100%, nearly all of the feedback posted is not only positive, but is accompanied by positive statements about the transaction. In hundreds of transactions, it is reasonable to expect that there are a few negatives. I have much more experience on Ebay than on Gunbroker, but not all buyers are perfect. A few buyers have unreasonable expectations or are difficult to satisfy and are quick to leave negative feedback to the seller, sometimes despite the sellers efforts to appease the buyer. I do agree that some of the responses apparently made by Mr. Lane's employees could have been more tactful, but I don't know the all of the communication history. I do know that Mr. Lane is accessible by email and have no doubt that he would gladly discuss any issues with a buyer in person or by phone as well. Since on Ebay and Gunbroker I am primarily a buyer, I understand the importance of a seller's feedback to a prospective bidder. However, even if I did not know Mr. Lane personally, I would have no reservations about bidding on any of his online auctions given his feedback, his guarantee stated in his auctions and the high quality of his listings and photos. I believe that the "warning" about midwest-neatstuff unfairly labels Mr. Lane and his business as dishonest and should be removed. If some bidder reads the feedback record and chooses not to bid that is fine, but for this site to try to discourage bidders from doing business with midwest-neatstuff on the basis of a limited number of negative feedbacks is unfair. Such a recommendation could well cause bidders to decline to bid on the auctions without ever taking the time to check the feedback out for themselves.
That was very long winded, yet it avoids the obvious fact that your friend has FAR MORE negatives than most sellers. I'm not talking about total volume. I am talking about a ratio, which is basic high school statistics. There are more negatives per every 100 transactions for this guy than the MAJORITY of other sellers.
Ok, look, let me spell this out…
Most sellers don't lash out with tasteless unprofessional responses to negative feedback. midwest-neatstuff does.
Most sellers average fewer than 2 negatives per 100 transactions. midwest-neatstuff has less than 300 transactions with 8 negatives!
midwest-neatstuff told an individual to f a flying doughnut when that person was only asking a polite question about an auction.
Your opinion is noted, and your fortunate experiences with Midwest-neatstuff doesn't alter the facts. When midwest-neatstuff is held up to the light, and compared to other sellers, the guy just looks plain bad.
Opinions are invented, reputations are earned!
stands to reason the dude's friend is gonna stick up for him
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